Josef Grünwidl
Will you make the church hip again?
He wears jeans, plays the piano and is a pastor at heart. The Archbishop-designate of Vienna talks to Conny Bischofberger about lost flocks, a new culture of welcome, his idea of God and what he would advise a priest who has fallen in love.
The winged altar in the study of the Archbishop's Palace behind St. Stephen's Cathedral shows the Mother of God in blue and an orange angel on a lemon yellow background. "Orange and yellow are my favorite colors," explains Josef Grünwidl, who has not yet changed anything in Cardinal Schönborn's former office. He may paint the blue walls (blue is Schönborn's favorite color) orange and yellow one day. "But at the moment I have other things to worry about."
A red candle flickers on the table, next to it is a glass of water. The Archbishop-designate of Vienna is wearing black jeans, a dark sporty jacket and a priest's shirt. The gray-blue eyes behind the rimless glasses look friendly and interested. The pastor, most recently Apostolic Administrator of the Archdiocese of Vienna, resisted his appointment as Archbishop for a long time, "because I thought there were others who were better suited", but then he gave in and said "yes" with all his heart.
"Krone": Can you already be called Archbishop?
Josef Grünwidl: No, not yet! - Laughs. - I am a designated or appointed archbishop, but I won't really be an archbishop until January 24th, the day of my consecration.
Do we get an exemption for our title question?
Laughsagain. - Only in the title, okay.
This Sunday marks 30 days since Pope Leo XIV appointed you Archbishop of Vienna. Do you sometimes wake up in the morning and still can't believe it yourself?
Yes, that happens to me from time to time. The second thought then is: But today I have another fulfilling day ahead of me!
With more than 4.5 million Catholics, the Catholic Church is still the largest community in Austria, and the trend is downwards. 72,000 left the church in 2024. As the future archbishop, will you make an effort for this group or are they lost sheep?
They are not lost sheep. Of course I feel sorry for each and every one of them, but often leaving the church does not mean that people automatically turn away from the faith or from God. They remain baptized and I am convinced that many will remain connected to God in prayer and will not change their Christian way of life. In most cases, they have been angered or disappointed either by a representative of the church or by an event. And of course the terrible abuse cases were a catastrophe for us. There was an enormous loss of trust and many people no longer wanted to support this with their church membership fee and wanted to send a signal by leaving. We try to ask the following questions every time someone leaves the church: "Why did you make this decision? Would you like to talk to someone about it?" Some take advantage of this, but the vast majority do not.
Could it also be that the church contribution is simply too high for them when money is tight?
That could also be the case. The church contribution is always the straw that breaks the camel's back.
Muslims in Austria have just over 700,000 members, and the trend is rising. What is the contact like with this group?
In Vienna in particular, we have very good interfaith cooperation with all religious communities through the Council of Religions. I am also in good contact with the president of the Islamic community. I am convinced that there are many Muslims in our country who are well integrated and who make an effort to play their part in the Western world, in a democratic country.
And then there are those who indulge in Islamism. Is the church underestimating this?
No. Of course there are groups in Islam, as in all other religious communities, that become extremist or violent. That is why it is important to distinguish between Islam and Islamism or political Islam. It does not help us that Islam as a whole is an enemy. This is a population group that is growing, as you rightly say, and we need good cooperation. Integration becomes more difficult if others are excluded or labeled from the outset.
How seriously are sensitive issues discussed in this interreligious dialog?
Of course, sensitive issues are also discussed. Muslims are now the largest group in primary and secondary schools in the city of Vienna, the second largest group are people who do not belong to any religious community, followed by Christians. Fewer and fewer children are being born and of these few children, only a few are baptized. If we want Austria to remain a Christian country, if we want Christianity to remain a strong group, we have to do something about it. I cannot accuse Muslims of living their faith and standing by it. I see this as a question to ourselves.
Is the FPÖ right when it warns that at some point there will be more Muslims than Christians?
I don't know. It is quite possible. But as I said, the warning must be directed at ourselves. To the Austrian population. How important is Christianity to us? Do I have my children baptized? Do I stand by the church? Is faith a value that I defend?
A sensitive issue in Austria is the headscarf ban for girls under the age of 14. Are you in favor of this?
The Austrian Bishops' Conference has issued a very detailed statement on this. This is a very complex issue. It is of course about supporting girls in their self-determination. When it comes to practising religion, neither a ban nor coercion on the part of parents is helpful. The only thing that helps is education and conversation, personal contact. As far as I know, the discussion with the Islamic religious community has been neglected. It would be better to start with the parents and teach them that they are not doing their child any good by forcing them to practise their religion.
The headscarf ban would interfere with two fundamental rights. The fundamental right of parents, who have a right to the religious upbringing of their children, and the fundamental right to freedom of religion.
Deshalb ist der designierte Erzbischof skeptisch
Why do girls have to cover their skin and hair to protect themselves from the gaze of men? That has nothing to do with religion.
It may not only have to do with religion, but it does. And this headscarf ban would interfere with two fundamental rights. The fundamental right of parents, who have a right to the religious upbringing of their children, and the fundamental right to freedom of religion. And for this reason, the Bishops' Conference is not happy with this headscarf ban and cannot agree to it in this form.
Another worrying issue is the rise in anti-Semitism in Austria. Is Arik Brauer, himself of Jewish origin, right when he says that Muslim immigrants have largely imported anti-Semitism?
Anti-Semitism exists in many societies, including in Austria. I can't subscribe to the idea that it's the Muslims' fault that there is anti-Semitism in Austria. We only remembered the November pogroms a week ago. The Hitler speech in Linz was not played by Muslims.
Do you think it is right that the new integration agreements include a commitment to protecting Jewish life in Austria, and therefore a clear commitment against anti-Semitism?
All preventative measures that prevent anti-Semitism are helpful. It must be clear that anti-Semitism will not be tolerated in Austria, in any form.
What role will the Catholic Church play in Austria's future? As the young successor to Christoph Schönborn, will you make the Catholic Church hip again?
I'm not young, I'm 62! And I don't think you have to make the church hip because it is hip. I want to make a contribution so that this community, even if it becomes smaller, does not become less important in society. That everyone is welcome here. Regardless of whether someone is Catholic or not.
What does the church have to offer?
We have the message of the Gospel, we have a message of hope for people. There is a network of faith and a network of solidarity and helpfulness in the church. This remains important and is perhaps more important than ever in times like these and in the future.
Our interview appears on the "Day of Poverty". How is it possible that Austria is a very wealthy country on the one hand and that there is still a lot of poverty on the other - Caritas pointed this out just last week.
The contrast between rich and poor is an age-old issue. Jesus himself repeatedly denounced this conflict. And he clearly always took the side of the poor and the weak and people on the margins. We try to do the same in the church. Our voice is very strong in Caritas. In countless parishes, we try to ease this tension between rich and poor with food distribution points, warming rooms and meals out. However, the church alone cannot eliminate these social tensions in Austria.
Muslims are to blame for the anti-Semitism in Austria? I can't subscribe to that. The Hitler speech in Linz was not played by Muslims.
Josef Grünwidl zum „importierten Antisemitismus“
Are we a three-quarter or a two-thirds society? In other words, are a quarter or a third of people at risk of poverty or poor?
I would say a two-thirds society, and the third is getting bigger. We are noticing this at every turn. More and more people are finding it very difficult to make a living due to the rising cost of living and food prices. The bishops clearly stated at the fall conference that budget consolidation is also good if the budget is not made at the expense of the poor and weak. A budget must reduce social tensions, not increase them.
Is the government doing this at the moment?
I believe that we need to take another closer look here. Also on the part of those who draw up the budget. One very important aspect is to look at the poor and the weak. If we overlook them, the problems will grow.
What do you think when you hear about top salaries like that of Harald Mahrer, who resigned as head of the WKO?
I can't judge his performance, so I'm having a bit of a hard time with this question. But I do think that some top salaries are simply out of proportion.
You were Christoph Schönborn's secretary and asked him to release you after three years because you wanted to be a priest again. How will people know that the new Archbishop of Vienna is actually a pastor at heart?
I was a pastor in many parishes for a long time, I was out and about with people, with children, young people and adults. I have accompanied the sick, the dying and the grieving. For me, this pastoral approach is also very important in my new role as Archbishop. That means meeting people, listening carefully to people and trying to find good solutions for them and offering help based on faith. Not just via social media, but really face to face.
Will you be active on social media?
Yes, on Instagram, Facebook and X. But that's done by an editorial team. But there will always be statements in my name.
We have to find good solutions for people and offer help based on faith. Not just via social media, but face to face.
Der neue Erzbischof ist in seinem Herzen Seelsorger.
Pastor Toni Faber is also part of your diocese. What do you think of his latest idea, the confessional on wheels?
That's great! Toni Faber is one of those people who are always trying out new and unconventional ways to get in touch with people and bring Jesus and the Gospel to the people. I think that's good.
You have repeatedly argued that celibacy should be voluntary. Will you also campaign for this in Rome?
I believe that this has long since arrived in Rome. My statements and sermons are read and noticed. The issue of celibacy in particular has been discussed again and again for 60 years. As has the issue of women. Women should not only work together, but also be represented in decision-making bodies. I am also implementing this as far as I can.
Will there be a married Catholic priest or a female deacon before the end of this century?
There are already married priests who celebrate according to the Byzantine rite. They are also active in our pastoral care. You can see from these priests that it is possible and that it is also accepted. I believe that the celibate life is an important way of life in the Church, it has existed from the beginning and it will continue to exist, albeit on a voluntary basis. So to answer your question: I would say rather the married priest.
In Berlin, a Protestant pastor has married four men and is now being heavily criticized for it. What do you think of that?
That wasn't a marriage or a wedding, but a blessing. To be honest, I find this case borderline.
The pastor argued: "What should God have against four men being able to love each other and not just two?"
I stand by my answer.
Have you also blessed homosexual couples in your time as a pastor?
It happened once, yes. But it is still rare and shows that homosexual people obviously still have the feeling that they are not wanted or recognized here and that is why they don't come with this wish. Cardinal Schönborn has already sent out signals that this is not the case. And Pope Francis. So when people come and ask me for a blessing, I am certainly not the one who refuses to bless them.
In Salzburg, three nuns resisted being sent to an old people's home. The story has gone around the world. Do you understand their disobedience?
Yes, the vows of the order do indeed include obedience. I am not informed in detail about this matter. I've only heard that there were many preliminary talks. And that the nuns initially agreed, but then changed their minds. I think it's sad that things have turned out this way, but there are a lot of people trying to solve this problem.
The nuns have now written a book: "Not with us"! Are you going to read it?
Laughs - No, I don't think so.
Homosexual people obviously have the feeling that they are not wanted or recognized here. Cardinal Schönborn has already sent out signals that this is not the case.
Grünwidl spendet homosexuellen Paaren auch den Segen
Will Austria actually get another cardinal with you?
I don't know. It depends on what course Pope Leo continues to take. Pope Francis has shown quite clearly that he wants to strengthen the global South, including in the College of Cardinals. The European church no longer has the weight it had in previous centuries, in terms of the global church. If Pope Leo continues in this vein, there will be no cardinal in Vienna. If Pope Leo changes this course, then there should be cardinals in Europe, not only in Vienna, but also in Paris, Berlin, Venice and other cities.
Do you hope so?
I don't hope so, because that would mean having duties and responsibilities in Rome on top of one of the largest dioceses in the world. I am actually well occupied with the Archdiocese of Vienna.
The Bible says: "Love your neighbor as yourself". As a pastor, do you also create self-love in your heart?
The Bible's commandment to love has three directions: You shall love God, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. So, ideally, it is a harmonious triad of three tones. Looking at myself, I would say that there are always dissonances in all three directions. Sometimes self-love is perhaps in the foreground and others come up short. At the moment, I'm hearing the opposite from many sides: "Please look after yourself more, take care of your energy levels and your health." So finding the right balance is a challenge.
Because you mentioned the harmonious triad and love music very much: What piece of music best expresses this sound?
I think that music is always beautiful when it is symphonic. In other words, when different instruments and different timbres play together. Of the symphonic pieces of music, I particularly love the Prague Symphony by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, number 38, which is wonderful.
What experience from your childhood would you wish for young people today?
A secure home and a carefree childhood with lots of freedom. I grew up in the countryside in the Weinviertel. When I think back, I remember my primary school days in particular as a wonderful time. Mornings at school, then quickly doing my homework and then being free to go out.
HIS PARENTS WERE FARMERS
Born on January 31, 1963 in Hollabrunn, Lower Austria. One younger brother, one older sister. His parents were farmers, his father is already deceased. After studying theology at university, Grünwidl also studied organ at the University of Music. From 1988, he worked as a chaplain and youth pastor. From 1995 to 1998, Grünwidl was first secretary to the newly appointed Archbishop of Vienna, Christoph Schönborn. He then worked as a parish priest and became dean of the Perchtoldsdorf deanery in 2016. In 2024, he became an honorary canon of the Chapter of St. Stephen's Cathedral and in January 2025 Apostolic Administrator of the Archdiocese of Vienna. His consecration as Archbishop will take place on January 24 in St. Stephen's Cathedral.
When did you actually know that you wanted to become a priest?
I was part of the altar servers and integrated into the parish from an early age. Religion has always interested me. My second mainstay was music. It took me quite a long time to decide whether I wanted to do music or theology. I went to seminary in Vienna and studied music on the side. It became clear to me during a year abroad in Würzburg. Music is beautiful and important to me, but it's my hobby. My job is to be there for people as a priest.
Can we also ask you if you've ever been very much in love?
Yes, we can. - A smile on his face. - And the answer is "yes"! -
What would you say to a priest who came to you and said: "Archbishop, I've fallen in love!"
I think I would first congratulate him on having this experience. And then I would advise him to take some time out so that he can think about it carefully. Also in prayer with a spiritual guide. Because this is a big decision. He should find out whether being in love and the relationship can become the basis for his future life and whether he would be prepared to give up the priesthood for it. I don't think it would be wise to make such a decision from the situation of being in love, almost on instinct
He should take some time out so that he can think about it carefully. Also in prayer with a spiritual guide. Because this is a big decision.
Was der Erzbischof einem verliebten Priester raten würde.
Because you have now mentioned prayer. How and when do you pray?
I pray in the morning. I usually have half an hour in silence before Holy Mass, where I prepare myself for the day and where I consciously make contact with God. Then we have a nice custom here in the office that we interrupt our work at 12 noon when the bells ring and come together for a short prayer. And then, of course, I also pray in the evening. I reflect on the day, look at what happened today with God. Giving thanks, asking, also asking for forgiveness if something has gone wrong. And sometimes I have a spontaneous thought about God in between and make brief contact with him.
Is God a man in your imagination?
No, and not a woman either. God is a source of strength for me. I also pray a lot to Jesus Christ. That's a man for me, I can imagine him in concrete terms. Or Mary. She is the mother of mankind and is venerated in our church as the Queen of Peace. When I think of the major conflicts - Israel, Ukraine, Sudan - I believe that we urgently need Mary's help and intercession.
As a future archbishop, will you still have time to play the organ?
Playing the organ is a bit difficult because you need a church to do so. But I have a piano in my apartment. I can sit down at the piano late at night and improvise. I also play a lot of Bach, Mozart and Schubert.
The Pope announced his favorite films this week, one of yours is "The Sound of Music". What's it like for you?
I'm not a big movie buff. But I can name two films that have impressed me recently. That was "Märzengrund" by Adrian Goiginger. And "Konklave" by Edward Berger. The latter was pretty adventurous, I have to say. - Laughs. - Well made, but a bit borderline. But a successful movie probably always needs something a bit more exciting.
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